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+--- Thread: HBO - Game of Thrones SPOILERS INSIDE. you have been warned (/showthread.php?tid=8792)
Re: HBO - Game of Thrones SPOILERS INSIDE. you have been war - strife - 06-16-2015
Jakensama Wrote:dun care about Dorne. I just thought the snakes interaction with Bronn was fun. Nor much in this season was funStrife Wrote:I really hope season 6 features more of the sand snakes and Bronn... probably the best part of season 5.
lolwut? Dorne was by far the worst part of the entire 5 seasons.
Re: HBO - Game of Thrones SPOILERS INSIDE. you have been war - Dharus - 06-16-2015
@Bach. I think it may feel that way because they've hacked the story apart and patched it back together. The books, even as dry as some of it was, flow better. I was able to bridge the weakness of the series from what i remember from the books.
@Strife. All three showed signs in the book but only Bran was fleshed out. I thought Jon was subconsciously repressing the connection. It was talked about when he was with the freefolk.
Re: HBO - Game of Thrones SPOILERS INSIDE. you have been war - Vllad - 06-16-2015
Strife Wrote:You don't have to be a Targaryen or a Warg to control dragons, you just have to be bonded to them... which some dragons get bonded to multiple people after their riders die. If you've read the World of Ice and Fire, there are people who were basically just regular knights/people.
You don't have to be but 90% of those that aren't Targaryen get fried trying to bond with dragons. It seems like a 40/60 thing with Targaryens. You could make a case that the more pure the Valerian blood is the bigger the connection is to dragons. It is entirely possible some of those non Targaryens that bonded with dragons are decendants of Valerian bastards.
It would appear to me to be the very same thing with Warging. All Starks seem to have that ability and the more pure the blood with Starks the greater the ability. Even those wildlings that Warg appear to be decendants of Starks that lived over the wall. Not everyone gets it though. Rob, Bran, Rickon and Arya clearly can Warg. With Sansa and Jon it is not clear whether they can or not even if their are hints.
Re: HBO - Game of Thrones SPOILERS INSIDE. you have been war - Vllad - 06-16-2015
Dharus Wrote:A friend and I were discussing this today. We pretty much think The Song of Fire and Ice is about Jon Snow's life and events of his lifetime. I think he is part Targaryen and Lyanna promised Ned to take Snow and promise to never tell. Ned's a promise keeper.
I think you are giving way too much credit to the authors of this story. If it was that well planned out it wouldn't have taken damn near 30 years to complete. Martin has clearly changed his mind over time on what the story is about. What is was in 91 and what it is today is totally different. That means they could be mostly making it up as they go along. Clearly this is the case for Martin.
I have no doubt your theory was correct in 91 but that doesn't apply today. Martin has said in interviews he has gotten rid of characters he never intended to and added some he never wanted to. Martin gets stuck in area's of his writing and can't get his way out. Danny stuck in Mareen for example. To me this is a clear example of writing without a plan. Even Bhenioff and Weiss have said Martin's end game is pretty vague. B&W seem to be just as surprised by some of the chapters Martin has released on the new book as everyone else based on their own character development.
The appeal of Martin's books is the story plays out more like real life then a history book. Basically you never know what you are going to get. That is because even Martin himself doesn't know how it is going to end until he is ready to publish.
Things have NEVER gone the way people predicted regarding this story so I wouldn't assume anyone truly knows its end right now. I would be surprised if this story ends as we all think it should. That would actually break the trend of this story being totally un-predictable.
I think it is just as likely that R+L=J but Jon is still dead anyway and Danny and her Dragons never makes it to Westeros and after Tomman, Cersai and Jamie are killed Tyrion becomes Azur and uses wild fire to end the long night.
Re: HBO - Game of Thrones SPOILERS INSIDE. you have been war - Jakensama - 06-16-2015
Vllad Wrote:With Sansa and Jon it is not clear whether they can or not even if their are hints.
Jon can Warg.
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I'm guessing Sansa probably could have as well if her Wolf hadn't been killed.
Re: HBO - Game of Thrones SPOILERS INSIDE. you have been war - Dharus - 06-16-2015
Well, I don't think he's going to deviant so far that the title doesn't make sense. The main thought was that Jon is the main character and Martin will keep to the theme of fire and ice. He has titled the series for a reason. Whether it was because of Jon coming to being or not who knows. It could be about an ice and fire gods. It could be about white walkers and dragons. However it continues, the series is call Song of Fire and Ice and I expect it'll follow that pattern in some form. Jon is the perfect character to fit that theme. His possible birth, his duty at the wall (ice) coupled with getting rezzed (fire). The sword he wields made of Valaryian steel (fire) which can kill white walkers (ice ). Sure, it might just be Martin Fing with us but it just seems like too much to dismiss as a red herring. Its just a theory much like people theorized about Luke and Darth Vader. I don't really care if I'm correct but i hope Martin doesn't go off the rails.
Re: HBO - Game of Thrones SPOILERS INSIDE. you have been war - strife - 06-16-2015
Fire and Ice could simply be dragons and white walkers.
I think anything is up in the air really. I lean towards Jon being the main character plot somehow... but who knows what side of the fight he'll be on or what form of him he will be.
Some think the Jon Snow we know is dead, but aren't ruling out a white walker version. I think after the nights watch stabbing him and all of his allies gone, his days in the watch are over. Ghost was basically nonexistent for this season... im curious if he had a role going forward or if he's murdered like lady and grey wind.
I'd like for him[Jon] to come back and hand the Boltons their ass. Melisandra saw the Boltons banners burning... but that may also be part off Breann's sorry arc.
Re: HBO - Game of Thrones SPOILERS INSIDE. you have been war - Vllad - 06-16-2015
Jakensama Wrote:Vllad Wrote:With Sansa and Jon it is not clear whether they can or not even if their are hints.
Jon can Warg.
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I wouldn't be surprised if he could but that was a wolf dream not actual Warging. I don't recall anytime he was running around in Ghost body like Bran, Arya or the Wildlings do.
Re: HBO - Game of Thrones SPOILERS INSIDE. you have been war - Vllad - 06-16-2015
Strife Wrote:I think after the nights watch stabbing him and all of his allies gone, his days in the watch are over.
Technically your watch ends when you die so if he was resurrected his watch was fullfilled. I suppose he could do anything he wants at that point. He has no claim on Winterfell but he could go look for Rickon assuming Bran is giving up his claim. Maybe head to Moletown and get laid before the dead come rolling over the wall.
Re: HBO - Game of Thrones SPOILERS INSIDE. you have been war - Jakensama - 06-16-2015
Vllad Wrote:Jakensama Wrote:Vllad Wrote:With Sansa and Jon it is not clear whether they can or not even if their are hints.
Jon can Warg.
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I wouldn't be surprised if he could but that was a wolf dream not actual Warging. I don't recall anytime he was running around in Ghost body like Bran, Arya or the Wildlings do.
I think it's just a level of how developed you are. Bran's the only one with any modicrum of control over it, and thats because he is a gimp. Arya's warging was dream level too.
Also, the wildling warg guy noted that Jon was also a skinchanger.
Re: HBO - Game of Thrones SPOILERS INSIDE. you have been war - Dharus - 06-16-2015
Strife Wrote:Fire and Ice could simply be dragons and white walkers.
I think anything is up in the air really. I lean towards Jon being the main character plot somehow... but who knows what side of the fight he'll be on or what form of him he will be.
Some think the Jon Snow we know is dead, but aren't ruling out a white walker version. I think after the nights watch stabbing him and all of his allies gone, his days in the watch are over. Ghost was basically nonexistent for this season... im curious if he had a role going forward or if he's murdered like lady and grey wind.
I'd like for him[Jon] to come back and hand the Boltons their ass. Melisandra saw the Boltons banners burning... but that may also be part off Breann's sorry arc.
The books are much better because they locked up Jon's wolf before killing him. Ghost does a lot to help Snow in the books. HBO has Ghost doing nothing but saving Sam outa the blue which is just silly compared to the books. Honestly some of the changes HBO has made make less since than Martin's story.
Re: HBO - Game of Thrones SPOILERS INSIDE. you have been war - Jakensama - 06-16-2015
And even more of the changes they made have been improvements to the horrible last couple of books. Except Dorne, which was unequivically terrible except for having some nice tits.
(And with Dorne - Why is it that Dr. Bashir is such a genius genetically engineer doctor but he's still in a wheelchair?)
Re: HBO - Game of Thrones SPOILERS INSIDE. you have been war - Vllad - 06-16-2015
Jakensama Wrote:And even more of the changes they made have been improvements to the horrible last couple of books. Except Dorne, which was unequivically terrible except for having some nice tits.
(And with Dorne - Why is it that Dr. Bashir is such a genius genetically engineer doctor but he's still in a wheelchair?)
Chronic Gout. Apparently he forgot the cure when he traveled back in time.
Re: HBO - Game of Thrones SPOILERS INSIDE. you have been war - Bach - 06-17-2015
I'll watch the next season. I'm just not sitting on the edge of my seat about it.
I think the era of TV series dramas and easy access to CGI worked well in Martin's favor. Not to put down the book lovers, but I would say George Lucas and R.R. Martin were two of the luckiest mediocre writers in recent history.
Re: HBO - Game of Thrones SPOILERS INSIDE. you have been war - Dharus - 06-17-2015
Bach Wrote:I'll watch the next season. I'm just not sitting on the edge of my seat about it.
I think the era of TV series dramas and easy access to CGI worked well in Martin's favor. Not to put down the book lovers, but I would say George Lucas and R.R. Martin were two of the luckiest mediocre writers in recent history.
What i liked about the books was each chapter was written in the point of view of its character. It was unique way of telling this story and made the mystery interesting. HBO is third person so internal thoughts of each character are usually lost. The storytelling is much better. Martin's writing is x10 better than Lucas because Martin's work is hacked up to fit on HBO and room made for HBOs T&A scenes.
Re: HBO - Game of Thrones SPOILERS INSIDE. you have been war - Jakensama - 06-17-2015
Bach Wrote:I'll watch the next season. I'm just not sitting on the edge of my seat about it.
I think the era of TV series dramas and easy access to CGI worked well in Martin's favor. Not to put down the book lovers, but I would say George Lucas and R.R. Martin were two of the luckiest mediocre writers in recent history.
Martin is a good writer for the Sci Fi/Fantasy genre, which is a genre where 99.9% of the writers couldn't actually write their way out of a paper bag when compared with actual literature.
His short stories are actually very good. He runs into trouble with the epic series format, but lets face it - who the hell doesn't? Dune, Wheel of Time, Malazan, Dark Tower- I can't think of any high profile epic series that doesn't have serious writing problems.. Most start off promising and then go rapidly downhill in the middle.
Re: HBO - Game of Thrones SPOILERS INSIDE. you have been war - Vllad - 06-17-2015
Bach Wrote:.
Not to put down the book lovers, but I would say George Lucas and R.R. Martin were two of the luckiest mediocre writers in recent history.
Hmm, we have differing opinions on those guys. I think Martis is good, he just doesn't think long term well enough.
Lucas sucks balls. You are giving him way too much credit by saying he is mediocre. His writing is on the 5th grade level.
Re: HBO - Game of Thrones SPOILERS INSIDE. you have been war - Vllad - 06-17-2015
Jakensama Wrote:who the hell doesn't? Dune, Wheel of Time, Malazan, Dark Tower- I can't think of any high profile epic series that doesn't have serious writing problems.. Most start off promising and then go rapidly downhill in the middle.
William Fortchen the Lost Regiment Series. Martin is a poor mans Fortchen. Long ass series, well thought out, you never know who will make it to the end, lays out his stories with full thought of how to begin and how to get to the end. Great characters. Actually completes his work. Doesn't ramble about shit that doesn't matter.
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Re: HBO - Game of Thrones SPOILERS INSIDE. you have been war - Jakensama - 06-17-2015
I don't actually mind the 'rambling about shit that doesn't matter' thing. Martin, Dune and wheel of time - all do an interesting job of world building and the ancillary info about their universes make it more interesting.
But you still have to have some sort of narrative structure and not just keep following character plotlines that don't fucking matter. (Jordan was the absolute worst at that - oh its Book 11 and here is another new random Aes Sedai).
I've been meaning to read the Last Regiment, I'll probably do that soon.
Re: HBO - Game of Thrones SPOILERS INSIDE. you have been war - Zouji - 06-17-2015
Hey! I liked the Malazan books. All of the ones written by Steven Erikson were great. The ones by Ian C Esslemont were ok.
Erikson cranked out a 800 page or so novel every 1 - 1.5 years. For ten fucking books. He wrote novelettes set in the same world when he got bored.
Re: HBO - Game of Thrones SPOILERS INSIDE. you have been war - Jakensama - 06-17-2015
Zouji Wrote:Hey! I liked the Malazan books. All of the ones written by Steven Erikson were great. The ones by Ian C Esslemont were ok.
Malazan was decent but dragged on, especially in the middle books. Plus, every character had practically the same personality. Every fucking person in his universe, regardless of educational level was apparently a freshman philosophy student.
Re: HBO - Game of Thrones SPOILERS INSIDE. you have been war - Vllad - 06-17-2015
Jakensama Wrote:I've been meaning to read the Last Regiment, I'll probably do that soon.
Fortchen really understands military tactics (he is a military professor) and writes about them very well. His battles are epic and fun to read about. He doesn't take short cuts either, most people don't actually write "combat" very well. It is either too boring or complete fantasy. Fortchen gives the details within the narrative which is why he is unique. Basically he is the rare combination of intellegence without the boredom.
That series has the best bad guys of any story I have ever read. I started reading those books in 91 and their are scenes in it that I remember to this day after a single read.
Re: HBO - Game of Thrones SPOILERS INSIDE. you have been war - Vllad - 06-17-2015
Apparently Jon Snow is the most searched item on the internet this week.
Here is my favorite picture:
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My favorite quotes from various people:
"There's Heaven, Hell, and the special place G.R.R. Martin will go due to how he tortures his readers / watchers"
"I'll only be satisfied if the White Walkers destroy the Night's Watch"
And Hitler already has a Jon Snow rant in him.
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This is almost as entertaining as GOT.
Re: HBO - Game of Thrones SPOILERS INSIDE. you have been war - Dharus - 06-17-2015
I think of this stuff like if someone watched the first Lord of the Rings movie without reading the books.
"The Balrog killed Gandalf! No!!!!"
Re: HBO - Game of Thrones SPOILERS INSIDE. you have been war - Zouji - 06-17-2015
Technically Gandalf the Grey did die.