Ole, Ole Ole Ole!

[Skaag]

As more of baby boomers and older generations move on, the more influence the younger generations who have grown up with soccer will have on national sports and grow the sport further in the US. Also generations who are able to be more globally minded without feeling they have sold their pride. Will it ever be in line with Baseball and US Football, probably not. Could US soccer be successful and help produce better quality players for both domestic and foreign leagues, hell yes.

Like the game, I declare this thread a tie (and yes I am a red blooded American sports fan who LOVES his "soccer").

1 Point US for the tie game

and

1 Point for ENG for the "Come On England" bikini top

[Slamz]

Well, since 90% of the kids are playing soccer these days, it's bound to become more popular.

Yeah, I dunno. Soccer was normal when I was a kid, 20+ years ago. We had high school and middle school soccer teams, and this was just po-dunk N.C.

It's not like soccer is new to America. It just never seems to catch on the way it has in Europe.

I think the fact that it's low scoring is headed in the right direction. Technically football is low scoring too. I mean the score may be 14-0 but that's really just 2-0 -- two touchdowns were made. But football is broken up into lots of little victories and defeats. Every hike of the ball is like a mini-game with easily measured results, which soccer doesn't really have. Baseball is similar to football in that every pitch is like its own little game, so there's lots of easily measured action going on.

Soccer, tennis and golf seem to be games that people prefer to play rather than watch. Soccer is popular in America in the sense that lots of people grow up playing it and are at least basically familiar with the game but they don't tend to watch it.


Maybe there's a strong rivalry component, too, that America is missing? I don't even know what a good example would be but there seem to be a lot of international soccer rivalries that people get up in arms about (sometimes literally) and Americans just don't have that same level of caring. If we'd beat England 3-0 in soccer, the English would probably march single file into the ocean to drown themselves but Americans would just be like, "Oh really? That's great!" and then they'd go on about their day.

[Moristans]

I think the fact that it's low scoring is headed in the right direction. Technically football is low scoring too. I mean the score may be 14-0 but that's really just 2-0 -- two touchdowns were made. But football is broken up into lots of little victories and defeats. Every hike of the ball is like a mini-game with easily measured results, which soccer doesn't really have. Baseball is similar to football in that every pitch is like its own little game, so there's lots of easily measured action going on.

Yeah, I think this pretty much nails it. Football and Baseball, even Basketball to a certain extent, are the perfect games for the American attention span. Lot's happen in little chunks of time so that you don't notice that a lot of time passes between scoring. I can barely stomach watching baseball on TV, but I love going to Dodger or Angels Stadium. You sit, drink beer, eat hot dogs and yell a lot. Plus, baseball is pretty much the perfect game for stats and numbers freaks. I think I enjoy reading box scores more than I enjoy watching baseball.

I suppose the knowledgeable soccer fan can find the same things in a match, maybe the intricacy of a one on one match-up between players trying to win the ball, who knows. I just want to put my head through the wall everytime a player falls down and grabs his shin like he crushed his tibia or something. That, and everytime a player shanks a kick into the stands 20 meters from the net.

I mean, when the Nigerian goalie can block a shot with his crotch then bounce back up like a champ, I know soccer players have to be tougher than they act.

[Jakensama]

Yet Americans aren't inherently opposed to flopping - NBA is popular, and the San Antonio spurs flop more than any soccer team on earth.

[Arsilon]

Are we defining popular by how many people watch it on TV or by how many people participate in one form or another?

[Moristans]

Yet Americans aren't inherently opposed to flopping - NBA is popular, and the San Antonio spurs flop more than any soccer team on earth.

I thank the European soccer culture for bringing that into the the NBA.

*cough*Vlade Divac*cough*

[Vanraw]

Are we defining popular by how many people watch it on TV or by how many people participate in one form or another?

I think the media is defining it by ratings and viewers. Not just TV. The last world cup final had over 750 million viewers, (which broke all the previous records for any sporting event), but very little by percentage from America.

In the end if America won the world cup, Americans would watch. Would it sustain? I dont know, I think they would have to continue to be on top.

[Kakarat]

Here is my 2 cents. I grew up playing soccer... love 'playing' the game. But could care less to watch it on TV. Sure that is what they created sports centers for...watch the highlights. I love a good GOOOOOOOOAAAAALLLLLL!

[Jakensama]

Yet Americans aren't inherently opposed to flopping - NBA is popular, and the San Antonio spurs flop more than any soccer team on earth.

I thank the European soccer culture for bringing that into the the NBA.

*cough*Vlade Divac*cough*

I blame the South Americans and that smelly Argentinian on the spurs.

[Moristans]

Yeah, forgot about those guys. They are much better actors than the Europeans. They have style and flair.

Americans are woefully behind. Did you see Ron Artest get pushed by Rondo last night? He actually got pushed hard enough to displace his upper body by a foot or so. If he had timed his flop right, he could have gotten at least one back flip, possibly with a ninja spin, with a fully vocalized yell. Instead, he mistimed it and could only managed a half hearted backwards stumble with a half turn and pained grimace.

[Vllad]

Lets face it a 1-1 tie is not only boring it is idiotic. "Hello, You play to win the game!"

Ties are simply stupid even in the NFL, which only exist in order to prevent injuries. I will tell you why Americans don't like soccer. Not enough violence, the great comeback is in impossible and underdogs never win. When it comes to the almighty American public and its money soccer would have to radically change before it wins over the public.

It is simply to boring to watch.

Hey I love curling but I don't expect it to ever be popular in America. Pretending it will ever be popular here is nonsense.


Vllad

[Moristans]

Every tie should go straight to penalty kicks. It's the most exciting part of soccer. Forget awarding a point for ties, overtime with the "golden goal", Just penalty kicks, with the potential for the two teams to have a brawl at the 11 meter line, no yellow or red cards given at the end of regulation time.

[Vanraw]

Every tie should go straight to penalty kicks. It's the most exciting part of soccer. Forget awarding a point for ties, overtime with the "golden goal", Just penalty kicks, with the potential for the two teams to have a brawl at the 11 meter line, no yellow or red cards given at the end of regulation time.

Isn't that how they used to do it? What do they do in the final game?

[Vanraw]

It is simply to boring to watch.

This is really really true. I tried to watch a couple games, and it was pretty painful. I went back to watching golf, which actually has more excitement for me.

[Riz]

Well, I'm going to just say it's all your opinion. For me, the 1-1 tie was fucking exciting. There were several goal attempts, stopped at the last second. That's exciting. Watching some steriod-ridden fucktard run a ball with nobody on him over a line isn't exciting to me. Watching the fast pace of constant movement, switches in who has control and the beautiful shot foiled by a really good defender or goalie...that's exciting.

Perhaps what you are really saying is that either you don't understand the rules, or you have the attention spans of a retarded ferret.

[Moristans]

Watching the fast pace of constant movement, switches in who has control and the beautiful shot foiled by a really good defender or goalie...that's exciting.

It's watching 90 minutes of guys jogging from one side of the field to the other, with more guys shanking balls off their shins into the stands than making beautiful shots. A few guys occasionally get shots on goal, and fewer still actually hit the back of the net, beautiful or not. This world cup, it seems like you are just as likely to see a goalie throw the ball into the back of his own net as you are seeing one make a spectacular save. I still think the Nigerian goalies save off his crotch is the highlight of the WC so far.

The rest of the time, you're watching hot foreign girls shake their asses in the stands. American T.V. is really doing themselves and every potential American soccer fan a disservice by not showing more half naked foreign girls in the stands. My one lament is that those stupid horns have completely replaced crowd chants.

I love the spectacle every 4 years.

For the years in between, give me 'roided up freaks of nature with ungodly speed and athletic abilty running full speed at each other just to control 2 yards of territory on a 100 yard field. That 6'6" 325 lb fucktard could outrun 75% of soccer midgets to 40 yards.

Speaking of drugs, has Maradonna kicked his coke habit yet?

Give me a guy who could outrun 100% of soccer midgets to any distance on crossing route at fulls speed, taking an impact from a free safety that would cripple a Bison, only to pop back up just to talk smack. Hell, just give me guys that talk smack without causing an international incident. Give me a sport where a head butt is a way to say hello, not a headline on the front page of a French newspaper.

Give me my American Football for my sports meat and potatos. I'll take World Cup soccer as a cream filled dessert every four years.

[Skaag]

I am starting to understand why The Purge usually doesn't last for more than a few months in any game. You see post after post of "how the game could be better". But the truth seems to be, some of you are just to stubborn and set in your ways to be bothered with learning something new or rather live in the past instead of adapting to change.

International Football is full of measurable results and comparisons between the players and teams. Problem is, you may actually have to try and learn what they are instead of reading some stat sheet or being given a 1 min break between 10 secs of plays to watch 5 replays of what just happened. That is part of the beauty of the game. International Football is a flowing sport that is constantly changing and requires players to adapt to quickly during the course of play. Sadly, a lot of this is lost on people who have never played at a truly competitive level or been exposed to a culture of fans who understand what is taking place on the field.

I gotta lawl at the "You play to win" comment. Do you know how a tournament like the World Cup works? I guess NFL and Baseball teams should quit the season as soon as they lose a game. I mean, it should be a perfect season or whats the point, right? What idiots for cont. to play and realizing that a tournament or season is about more than just one game. Or how about those "stupid" teams that rest players against weaker teams or less important games in order to prepare for the later stages. You call that idiotic, I call that strategy. A tie in the first round of the World Cup is like being 500 for other sporting teams. You try and leave yourself in a good position to finish strong when the knock out or play off stage starts.


There are three big handicaps to International Football catching on in the US.

1) Diving and asking for calls: As Jake pointed out, American don't like this. It is seen as giving up or being a baby. I agree, this is something I think FIFA needs to do a better job of addressing. Depending on the league you watch, this has become less of an issue over the past 5 years. But the nature of soccer being a flowing sport makes it hard to police for the refs. This has lead to lots of debate on the use of replays, extra refs, and sensors to assist the field ref. But applying these changes across the whole globe and every league is much harder than just making such changes in 1 league like US sports. Also, the current President of FIFA is at the stage of being more worried about his legacy than the whats best for the sport. Something I am sure you Baseball and Hockey fans can relate to.

2) Poor use of replays and highlights: A player gets fouled, dives, or shanks a shot 20 yards wide of the goal and you see it replayed from diff. angles. Yet the build up play, footwork, and passing that lead up to those plays goes unnoticed to those who may have missed it during the play. Even watching the games in HD on 50+" TVS does not allow people to pick up all the skill and ability that goes into making plays happen. Highlights and replays are the best chance to help educate the viewers or show them what they may have missed. The best example of this is usually the post game report. When they have time to use fancy video replays and graphics to to explain it. They need to find ways to apply some of this during the game and make better use of their breaks in action to showcase these moments. I would rather watch a nice build up of play that happened 10mins ago in the game, than see the coach scratching his ass on the sideline or players sub on and off. Or the classic, show 2 secs of a player skying a ball, instead of the 3-4 great passes that produced the opportunity.

3) Old/stubborn and short attention span audience: I won't go into the whole attention span part because I think most of us can agree on that one. Sadly, a lot of US sports fans seem to have a hard time following more than 2 mins of action without being given a break to stuff their face with a hot dog or analyze a dozen diff stats based on 5 secs of play. This is not something isolated to just sports in the US and North America. But can be seen in everything from politics to movies.

Americans grew up on Baseball, US Football, and Basketball. It is what has been passed down through generations and something we feel most people can relate to in some way or another. The hardcore fan can sit down at a bar with someone who barely follows the team, and they can discuss the good and bad moments together. There is enough exposure in our culture that people have a basic understanding of the sport or what is "good and bad". This isn't true of International Football. Yes it has been in youth sports for awhile now, but high school, college, and semi-pro leagues are still relatively new in the states. These are the generations that will start the tradition of passing it down to their kids and grand kids.

But Americans are resistant to change or accepting of other peoples ideals. If it isn't American, why should we care? Thankfully, this is something slowly getting phased out with each generation as they are forced to face the reality of globalization and offered better education with regards to history and how our interactions affect one another.

I bet I could spend hours trying to explain even the more minor nuances of International Soccer I have taught to young kids to someone like Vllad, and still he would not get it. Not do to lack of intelligence, but because he doesn't want or care to learn something different. Which is fine, but you really shouldn't use your ignorance as an argument against something.

[Breand]

The ratings for the USA/England match was the highest ever for a first round World Cup match, and the 5th highest soccer match in history. There is DEFINITELY more interest than in the past and yes, I think what Jake was saying about the TV networks ignoring it because of the low ad revenue absolutely holds true. ESPN is in a much bigger position than they were 4 years ago, and they promoted the living hell out of the Cup because they already make their money from cable companies and the commericals are just an added bonus. So they were willing to promote it for the gains they will see in the future (and recognize the exponentially growing Hispanic population). I think this year's Cup is ESPN saying "We are the worlds' sports network."

[Skaag]

Mori, what leagues are you watching? I can name a ton of International Football players who could outrun or keep up with your fastest NFL players in a 1 off sprint. Unfortunately for the "Soccer" player, he has to play almost nonstop without commercial breaks or 20mins of watching the other team throw the ball around between his sprints. Love to see how fast a wide receive would be if he had to run for 10mins then do a 40 yard sprint.

How do you also justify using roids to cheat, yet cry foul at players taking dives to win? I guess cheating with drugs or stealing play books is the "American" thing to do.

Have you ever payed at anything close to competitive levels of Soccer? There is more dirty hitting and smack talking than I think you are aware of. The head butt you are referring to was not just some random head butt. It was one of the greatest players of all time and devote family man having his mom and sister called gypsy whores who should have died in WW2. All of which took place in the biggest game played only once every 4 years. So, yes it makes front line news. If I was picking my all time starting lineup for a squad, Zidane would be one of my first picks hands down. But his reaction in such an important game and so close to overtime was foolish and cost his team not only in the shoot out by lacking one of their best finishers, but by shifting the momentum away from France as they were just putting lots of pressure on Italy's goal.

I guess the head butt wouldn't have been such a big deal if the players all wore suits of armor like US Footballers.




Breand or anyone else in the states... What is the coverage like on ESPN? I am stuck watching CBC here in Canada. Which isn't too bad because is lacks media bias and they are showing every game of the World Cup. But TSN (Canada ESPN) has almost 0 coverage or rights. Instead we have Sports Net and other channels covering all the post game reports and highlights. I did get to watch the US game on ABC which was great. Martin Tyler is an awesome announcer and John Harkes is getting better. It was nice to have the mix of view points during that match and two announcers to feed off each other. CBC is only hosting with 1 announcer (which seems to understand the game about as much as Vllad) and lack luster post game reporters. I would mute them, but then I wouldn't get to hear all the awesome horn blowing... haha

[Moristans]

Whoa Skaag,

First of all, Baseball and Basketball have become international sports, for damn good reason. There is something in those games for everybody.

Football is, indeed, uniquely American, like a Philly steak sandwich or Jazz. I can appreciated everything every soccer fan has ever said about soccer and it's appeal. I can still talk smack about it though because, being raised on American Football, having played American Football and a bit of soccer, and having been a fan of American Football, I think soccer is boring compared to American Football. My opinion, yes.

Has anybody ever heard a non-American Football fan (*cough"Europeans*cough*) talk about American Football and the level of ignorance they show for the game and the guys who play it? Calling soccer boring is being downright nice compared to some of the stupid things said about American Football.

In Purge terms, this is just gentle, good natured ribbing. It's all grown guys playing kid's games which is what we do best.

[Moristans]

I can name a ton of International Football players who could outrun or keep up with your fastest NFL players in a 1 off sprint.

Sorry, you'll have to pony up with some real numbers and times. Who are these gauys and what have they run for times?

The fastest guys in the NFL have and always will be track guys. The one thing in football that is king, is speed. Their speeds are well documented and not a matter of speculation.

Unfortunately for the "Soccer" player, he has to play almost nonstop without commercial breaks or 20mins of watching the other team throw the ball around between his sprints. Love to see how fast a wide receive would be if he had to run for 10mins then do a 40 yard sprint.

This is precisely why the NFL has the fastest guys in the world, outside of actual Olympic sprinters that is. NFL skill and speed guys train for burst speed over short distances, period. Take the guys with the fastest natural speed and train them for top speed, and you get the fastest guys, period. It's what they do and how they make their living.

No athlete, no matter how "naturally" fast will ever reach their top potential speed by training to jog up and down the pitch for 90 minutes, with occasional bursts. That's not speculation, thats just training methodology.

[Moristans]

How do you also justify using roids to cheat, yet cry foul at players taking dives to win? I guess cheating with drugs or stealing play books is the "American" thing to do.

Dude, can we lighten up a bit? :roll:

[Riz]

Actually Jazz is pretty international now. Sure, we invented it, but it developed a life of its own outside of the US. Kwela comes to mind from South Africa, which is a Jazz offshoot (and before you say offshoots don't count, most Jazz in the US is an offshoot from the original. It comes in many forms). It's certainly no longer all American anymore.

[Breand]

Breand or anyone else in the states... What is the coverage like on ESPN? I am stuck watching CBC here in Canada. Which isn't too bad because is lacks media bias and they are showing every game of the World Cup. But TSN (Canada ESPN) has almost 0 coverage or rights. Instead we have Sports Net and other channels covering all the post game reports and highlights. I did get to watch the US game on ABC which was great. Martin Tyler is an awesome announcer and John Harkes is getting better. It was nice to have the mix of view points during that match and two announcers to feed off each other. CBC is only hosting with 1 announcer (which seems to understand the game about as much as Vllad) and lack luster post game reporters. I would mute them, but then I wouldn't get to hear all the awesome horn blowing... haha

ESPN is showing every game, and their announcers certainly seem up to snuff...and all of them sound British. Building up to the games they previewed it in a way that would garner interest to Americans. Basically they used their huge financial clout to tell Americans to watch the games. I really think ESPN is the reason for the additional interest this year, which is kind of what Jake was saying, it needing backing by a major network.

[Moristans]

In Cali, games are being carried by both ESPN and ABC. I watched all the weekend games but I have to follow the games during the week on the net.