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How do we know that the mercenaries are bringing us dead pirates and not some random Somali fishermen?
Letters of Marquis and Reprisal have been discussed in industry anti piracy meetings and the general consensus is its just going to turn the area into more of a warzone with hired thugs at war with the somali thugs and questionable international law.
On the other hand, wing commander Privateer was one of my favorite games back in the day.
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Jakensama Wrote:How do we know that the mercenaries are bringing us dead pirates and not some random Somali fishermen?
Letters of Marquis and Reprisal have been discussed in industry anti piracy meetings and the general consensus is its just going to turn the area into more of a warzone with hired thugs at war with the somali thugs and questionable international law.
On the other hand, wing commander Privateer was one of my favorite games back in the day.
Why go to Somali? I'd use the Letter of Marquis to clean up some of the streets here in Atlanta.
"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." - Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto
Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state.
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Somali might be safer than some of the streets in Atlanta.
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I'm wondering if Mori's idea wasn't such a bad one now that I see some numbers. 20,000 ships a year (through the Gulf of Aden) and less then 5% of them are US crewed. That's less then a 1000 ships per year. I was thinking the number of total ships (from all nations) would be 10 times higher then that.
Quote:The Gulf of Aden, which links the Suez Canal and the Red Sea to the Indian Ocean, is the shortest route from Asia to Europe and one of the world's busiest shipping lanes, crossed by more than 20,000 ships each year.
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2009/04/1...91560.html
"Hamilton is really a Colossus to the anti republican party. Without numbers he is an host within himself. They have got themselves into a defile where they might be finished but too much security on the republican part will give time to his talents and indefatigableness to extricate them. We have had only middling performances to oppose to him. In truth when he comes forward there is nobody but yourself who can meet him. His adversaries having begun the attack he has the advantage of answering them and remains unanswered himself. For God's sake take up your pen and give a fundamental reply to Curtius and Camillas" - Thomas Jefferson to James Madison
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Keep in mind that the pirates are moving south towards the horn of africa now too, which would increase the traffic they could intercept a lot plus it is a severalfold larger area for the combined naval task forces in the region to cover.
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Jakensama Wrote:Somali might be safer than some of the streets in Atlanta.
My point exactly. :wink:
"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." - Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto
Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state.
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Spread my work ethic not my wealth.
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Slamz Wrote:I suddenly like Ron Paul.
Bah, now people are jumping on my Ron Paul bandwagon...
Hehe I can't say I agree with all his policy or views. But I think some of it is at least in the right direction. Just wish he would dump more of his Republican ties and focus more on the middle America support he has. I think more people actually agree with his stance on certain issues but they are to "nonPC" to be supported openly.
Go go English as a national language!
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I wonder when the Navy forces will start using "bait" ships to combat these pirates. Turn the tables a bit and make them uncertain which boats are easy pickings and which ones are crewed by trained combatants with full navy support.
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I'm wondering if we can't just make it a stipulation that US flagged ships in this region will pick up a handful of US Marines for the journey.
It would basically be like conducting naval escorts, but cheaper. And since there aren't that many ships, it wouldn't seem to be a big deal, logistically.
I'm just not sure we can legally make that demand? Apparently we put Navy personnel on the recently attacked ship, though, for the rest of its journey. I dunno if we asked.
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Do you support this done on the US flag ships owned by foreign companies too?
Bottom line is, the overarching problem needs to be dealt with, this whole situation affects America regardless of if American crew are safe or not.
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If we did it, I think we should charge the owners for the services. I'm tired of America being expected to clean up the worlds mess for free.
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Vanraw Wrote:If we did it, I think we should charge the owners for the services. I'm tired of America being expected to clean up the worlds mess for free.
I'm willing to put my tax dollars toward protecting American citizens at sea or abroad. I don't care who owns the ship. If Americans are attacked or in danger of being attacked, I don't mind having our tax dollars go toward securing our citizens.
"Hamilton is really a Colossus to the anti republican party. Without numbers he is an host within himself. They have got themselves into a defile where they might be finished but too much security on the republican part will give time to his talents and indefatigableness to extricate them. We have had only middling performances to oppose to him. In truth when he comes forward there is nobody but yourself who can meet him. His adversaries having begun the attack he has the advantage of answering them and remains unanswered himself. For God's sake take up your pen and give a fundamental reply to Curtius and Camillas" - Thomas Jefferson to James Madison
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So does every businessman who goes to a dangerous country get a free military escort now too? I would have liked some in Colombia.
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Jakensama Wrote:So does every businessman who goes to a dangerous country get a free military escort now too? I would have liked some in Colombia.
In Columbia, there is a functioning, if not corrupt, police force which would be your protection. My sister-in-law seems to trust them enough to travel home to see her family -- I wouldn't. Anyway, I'm not talking about over-riding other nations law enforcement, I'm talking about protecting our citizens. If you choose to go to a country (especially one that the state dept warns you not to go to), then you're at the mercy of that countries law enforcement and legal system. If you're out on the high seas or in a country with no functioning law enforcement, I think that's a different story (depending on how you got there). I'll write up a full 300 page legal doc covering the scenarios that would qualify/not qualify tomorrow. =p
"Hamilton is really a Colossus to the anti republican party. Without numbers he is an host within himself. They have got themselves into a defile where they might be finished but too much security on the republican part will give time to his talents and indefatigableness to extricate them. We have had only middling performances to oppose to him. In truth when he comes forward there is nobody but yourself who can meet him. His adversaries having begun the attack he has the advantage of answering them and remains unanswered himself. For God's sake take up your pen and give a fundamental reply to Curtius and Camillas" - Thomas Jefferson to James Madison
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But the local legal system is not capable of protecting you in many places that American businessmen go, thats why in many cases these guys hire private security, which the people on US flag ships should do if they want protection. We payed security when I had to take a car from Bogata to Cartagena because kidnapping very white businesspeople over there is FARC's hobby.
The crew unions, owners, and P&I clubs don't want this, they want the whole international fleet to be hunting down and killing the pirates, not playing crossing guard and risking more violence by having firefights on your ships.
The governments job is to keep the seas safe, and they should be doing that becuase a safe gulf in general is far more in the national interest than providing foreign companies with free security because they employ american workers.
Now when Americans are attacked they should offer assistance, but their job is to find and destroy the pirates.
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Jakensama Wrote:Now when Americans are attacked they should offer assistance, but their job is to find and destroy the pirates.
I agree.
I see the distinctions you're making in the rest of your post and would probably agree with most of them. I don't want our military to be abused or turned into a civilian security escort service.
Lets just say, that you won't hear me complain about tax payer money used to rescue Capt. Phillips (as an exact example of what I find reasonable).
"Hamilton is really a Colossus to the anti republican party. Without numbers he is an host within himself. They have got themselves into a defile where they might be finished but too much security on the republican part will give time to his talents and indefatigableness to extricate them. We have had only middling performances to oppose to him. In truth when he comes forward there is nobody but yourself who can meet him. His adversaries having begun the attack he has the advantage of answering them and remains unanswered himself. For God's sake take up your pen and give a fundamental reply to Curtius and Camillas" - Thomas Jefferson to James Madison
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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB12585454...EThirdNews
Quote:NAIROBI, Kenya -- The Maersk Alabama, the American-flagged ship captured briefly by pirates in April, came under fire again early Tuesday morning off Somalia's coast, but evaded the attackers.
Four men in a skiff sped within 300 yards of the container ship, firing automatic weapons in an attempt to board it, according to the U.S. Navy's Fifth Fleet. A security team aboard the Alabama fired back and managed to fend off the attack, the Navy said.
The onboard security detail was a private contractor, not a military detachment, according to a Fifth Fleet spokesman. A U.S. P-3 surveillance aircraft established radio communications with the ship's captain Wednesday, and the ship reported all aboard were safe, and the ship was proceeding to its next port of call.
"Hamilton is really a Colossus to the anti republican party. Without numbers he is an host within himself. They have got themselves into a defile where they might be finished but too much security on the republican part will give time to his talents and indefatigableness to extricate them. We have had only middling performances to oppose to him. In truth when he comes forward there is nobody but yourself who can meet him. His adversaries having begun the attack he has the advantage of answering them and remains unanswered himself. For God's sake take up your pen and give a fundamental reply to Curtius and Camillas" - Thomas Jefferson to James Madison
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Heh, good to hear IMO, that the ship had an armed security team on board. Basically after the previous incident, I don't think any American flagged ship can afford the risk of being captured. The pirates are surely looking for an excuse for some revenge.
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Hah, if I was the pirates, I would be looking through the binoculars, for the American flag, and then saying "we will wait for the next one".
Do they honestly think that we would not send the navy again?
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Heh, its carrying food aid TO somalia and surrounding regions, I certainly hope they have some security when you are going to port there. My parent company won't do anything with EC Africa. Fortunately there is no business there except government food aid so you can avoid the area.
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